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horns of Venus.

Discussion in 'Observing Celestial Objects' started by kevan hubbard, Mar 6, 2017.

horns of Venus.

Started by kevan hubbard on Mar 6, 2017 at 12:09 PM

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  1. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    There's a book swap place some ways north of where I live in the countryside and I often walk up there with some books and bring some back.got into Iain m.banks via this route! As the moons coming into phase I only pack my little 8x25 monocular as in moonlight deep sky objects are not so visible so there's little advantage in the heavier 10x42.I had a look at Venus tonight through very thin cloud with the 8x and yes it looked like horns of a bull just as the ancient folk of the middle East reported it to be!however that's only just visible at 8x and for a definable view you need to rest on a wall or the like.so unless someone in the middle East at the time of Sumer had,von daniken style!,invented a small telescope I fail to see how anyone could have seen the horns effect?
     
  2. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    That's an excellent mystery alright!

    That may require a re-write of what we call the invention of the 'telescope' by Galileo, and the reflecor why Newton. My approach is beginning by figuring out what natural-phenomenae could result in seeing a magnification of view. This way I hope to avoid the Erich von Däniken rather grandiose-leap to 'Little Green Men.'

    So what out in nature could fall-into-place to magnify one's field-of-view, and thereby reveal such things as the "Horn's of Venus?"

    Hmmm.....?

    Dave


    Lenticular Cloud in PNG.png
    "Shhhhhhh! They'll hear you....!"
     
  3. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    My guess, ancient clear skies with little or no light or other air pollution. Oddly, one or two people (who are also non-amateur astronomers) near where I live have claimed to see the crescent Venus with naked eyes. On a good night, I can perceive the phase, although I'd hardly call what I see with the unaided eye 'the horns of Venus'. Maybe ancient poetic licence? lol
     
  4. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Honestly Dave, I don't know how anyone could mistake Venus for what's obviously a late model Zeta Reticulan scout ship in stealth cloud mode.
     
  5. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Zeta Reticuli, you say? I thought the architecture looked familiar!

    Obviously it's an older-model 'Probe-Ship,' - same type as grabbed those Hill's back in 1963 I think...

    Dave
     
  6. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, those Zeta Reticulans have a thing about probes. :eek:

    dc680fa2-ebbb-4f59-8666-3fe14f810a03.jpg

    They look like they need to get out into the Zeta Reticulan sun a bit I think, spending long periods of time in those scout ships has kind of made them pale looking.
     
  7. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I've been observing a twilight setting Venus at about 18:25 GMT. Azimuth 83.1° W and an altitude of around 20.5°. Venus is 0.719 au from Sol in Pisces.

    v1.png

    I am observing from a Bortle 2/3 area, 152 metres above mean sea level on the edge of the greenbelt. There is occasional wispy cloud and some cumulus clouds not unlike the SN7 simulated image above. With the naked eye, after only a short time, and a tiny bit of concentration and patience, I can distinctly make out two points of light either side of the main bright light which is Venus, effectively suggesting horns.

    v2.png

    The bright points correspond to the 'horns' of the crescent as seen with an f/11 90mm Gregory-Maksutov scope at 66.6x with a 15mm Celestron Kellner eyepiece. So, if I can see them with the naked eye, bearing in mind I knew they were there so it might be suggestion, I'm sure they could have been perceived in antiquity.
     
  8. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    I think what makes seeing Venus's phases such a challenge is its brightness? I notice now it's low seeing the phases is much easier in fact just saw them tonight again using an 8x monocular probably something to do with atmospheric thickness damping the image at low level. I'd put the phases of Venus in amongst those borderline naked eye objects that the ancients may have observed, here are some others, Jupiter's moons,Uranus, individual stars in m44.telescopes seem to predate Galileo, as a Dutch man had invented such a device prior to Galileo but not much before him.von daniken believed aliens had visited earth and directed our development. Strangely enough another Swiss,billy Meir, claimed to have taken pictures of 'beam ships'from another world and they look like traditional flying saucers except some have long legs.I try and keep an open mind about such matters having seen a large ring cross the sky as a child. With hindsight it could have been a smoke ring produced at the nearby docks but can't remember it in enough detail to debunk it like that.
     
  9. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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  10. kevan hubbard

    kevan hubbard Well-Known Member

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    UFOs would appear to be cultural although we can't say with any certainty that people didn't see them in the era before manned flight. They would appear to be too small to have traveled between stars however we obviously don't know anything about faster than light travel assuming that it is possible or ways of getting from a to b without violating relativity.UFOs would seem to come from the same place as ghosts and the like which means that they are probably generated by internal rather than external mechanisms? There may however be much that we do not understand about the universe and the boundary between external and internal may be a false one?
     
  11. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I'd go along with that.

    b0ec1d52-ba50-453d-bab9-08011c03db0a.jpg

    Although, some things are bigger on the inside than the outside lol.
     
  12. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Carl Jung's theory of the 'Collective Unconscious' posits that all people share such an animal that contains all the information we will ever know - beyond the present date & time - which is slowly revealing itself to us over what we perceive as millennia.

    I extrapolate on this to include all other "intelligent" life-forms in the known (and.....?) Universe.

    Don't think about it. Or think about a Horse's White Tail,

    Dave
     
  13. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I've always wondered what a Jungian slip was? o_O
     
  14. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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  15. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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  16. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sold on the ET explanation, mind you, when Jocelyn Bell Burnell first discovered pulsars the government slapped a D Notice on it, just in case.
     
  17. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'll bite: What, pray tell, is a "D Notice?"

    Dave
     
  18. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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  19. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    venus1.png

    I saw a setting twilight Venus with 3.76% showing yesterday with the naked eye and at 103x. It is getting ever closer to the Sun. It will be slightly lower today at the same time with only 3.2% showing. I doubt the weather will allow me to see it however.

    venus2.png

    I don’t think I can really perceive the ‘horns’ anymore with the naked eye. Venus is getting brighter but there is less of it to see so it is actually appearing to diminish with the naked eye. Even so, I found an ND filter was useful at 67x and 103x to make the crescent clearer to view.

    ~ Images by SN7
     

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