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Mars Filter

Discussion in 'Observing Celestial Objects' started by Pleiades, Jun 23, 2018.

Mars Filter

Started by Pleiades on Jun 23, 2018 at 5:33 AM

107 Replies 10385 Views 0 Likes

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  1. Pleiades

    Pleiades Well-Known Member

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  2. Pleiades

    Pleiades Well-Known Member

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  3. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, I want the Celestron one now lol.

    marsf1.jpg

    I thought the Orion filter (I have no idea if these are made by the same OEM as the Celestron) did provide some good views of Martian surface features. I used it last night but the dust storm is hiding the features. There was a hint of them. In my experience Celestron filter threads are not compatible with anything.

    marsf2.jpg

    TV ceased producing their Mars filter and combined it with another to create the Bandmates. It's similar, although they aren't made anymore.
     
  4. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Rats! Bats! And Alley-Cats!

    Oh no! Not another 'Mars-Filter' to have to test! Just when I was inundated in these things - they pull this out of their collective orifice! <growl!>

    Now I'm swamped.....
     
  5. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    LOL! At the moment I think I have to import this, I can get it on Amazon, but I'll pay a few quid extra for it.
     
  6. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Good! You do this! All yours!

    Celestron huh? Next we can expect Meade. Skywatcher. And anything else that moves.....
     
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  7. Orion25

    Orion25 Well-Known Member

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    The Orion filter is pretty good. It helps clarify darker features. Haven't been able to try it with the polar cap yet. It does, however, add a strong magenta tint though.

    ASTRONOMY - MARS FILTER COMPARISON 5-06-18 SM.jpg
    The dust storm is making things difficult to see right now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  8. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I just read a review of filters in general from a person out of Woodland Hills (another good astro-supplier out in Calif.) who summed it up thus.....

    He said that (I'm paraphrasing) most filter-makers have caught the American-habit of thinking "If a little's good, then more is better." And they drench the substrate in the color they wish. This explains why the Orion Mars-Filter imparts too much magenta to everything you see through it. As does the TIFFEN FL-D filter which I thinks it's derived from.

    Meanwhile the old Sirius Optics 2003 Mars filter is lighter on the magenta, more resembling the B+W FL-D Filter.

    What you're attempting to do is increase the demarcation between two different colors on the object you're viewing. NOT dye the thing!


    "Go mix me a batch of Spotted-Paint!"
    - Moe Howard​
     
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  9. Gabby76

    Gabby76 Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree Dave, a good filter is more subtle and does not overpower the object.
     
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  10. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    X
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  11. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    "I thought the Orion filter (I have no idea if these are made by the same OEM as the Celestron) did provide some good views of Martian surface features. I used it last night but the dust storm is hiding the features. There was a hint of them. In my experience Celestron filter threads are not compatible with anything."

    This above by Mak.

    My quote function is acting weird, which is why there's an 'X' in my borked post above.

    Anywho - this next piece is from the description of the new Celestron Mars-Filter gadget:

    "
    Quick Overview
    • Premium glass Mars filter with multiple coatings to maximize light transmission in specific wavelengths to bring out subtle details in the Martian surface
    • Metal filter housing for durability with standard 1.25" filter threads
    • Bonus Mars opposition observing guide included.....

    So, Mak, seems this is not the case on this ride on the Merry-Go-Round. But TeleVue®, on the other hand, is notorious for employing proprietary threading.

    Me thinks we'll have to open a museum: The 2018 Mars-Opposition Filter Museum. Who'll we get as a caretaker?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  12. Gabby76

    Gabby76 Well-Known Member

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    I would be more interested in how the coatings are applied.
    Film, bloomed, ion deposit etc.

    I purchased a "high end" Hb filter years ago that ended up being film between two pieces of glass.
    Utterly useless in use.
     
  13. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Well I'll know soon enough just whether or not it works. Whether or not if it was soaked in magenta dye. Whether or not it's someone else's filter that's been re-branded. And whether or not I can afford to eat this coming month! Can you guess why? Well.....

    Yes!

    I caved. I admit it. I bought one from Agena. So it's probably already in my mailbox. I ordered it an hour ago - so knowing Agena.....Well.....By dawn then.


    ps - It was actually a film between two hunks of glass?! An Hb, eh? What brand was that abortion? :p I want to know more! :eek: :D!
     
  14. Orion25

    Orion25 Well-Known Member

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    What took you so long? Haha. I had faith that you'd have to test one out for yourself :p
    Keep us posted!
     
  15. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    So says Celestron's marketing department.

    In my experience the term standard 1.25" filter threads can mean almost anything. Whether they're a standard M28.5 x 0.6, like Baader and GSO filters, is another thing entirely. I have Solomark filters that claim 'standard' threads. I'm not sure what standard they are using, the Mesolithic millimetre perhaps? lol
     
  16. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Regardless - I've never known Agena to repeat false & deceptive advertising that ends-up extorting more £££ post-sale. I would think they'd employ a policy of "Trust, but verify" advertising that does so.

    I'd give them a call and inform Agena that: "Guess what Folks, the filter arrived, but the threads are Venusian and I'll be needing a 47.3Zb - 31.8mm Step-Down adapter. They cost 9,021 Quatro! There was a note in the box! I don't suppose you'd be willing to refund my money?" And they reply: "Sucker! Buy the adapter, or suck it up!"

    In other words - I'd get my money back STAT! Agena would certainly not collude in a false-advertising scam (Bait & Switch) and rip-off their customers. Agena are Gentlemen.

    Do you happen to have a "Thread-Pitch Gauge?" If so - is it a good (accurate) one? If yes, who made yours?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  17. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I am guessing Agena just trust whatever spiel they're given by distributors/manufacturers. It has jack to do with them anyway as they are only the retailer. I certainly wouldn't hold them (or any retailer) responsible for thread compatibility. As I've stated before, I'm no detective, but Celestron as far as I can ascertain haven't made any false and deceptive advertising claims anyway. They merely state that their filters have 'standard' threads. And, as I also stated earlier, there is some difference of opinion what a 'standard' thread actually is. Some manufacturers (Baader, GSO) have decided to use M28.5 x 0.6 as the standard 1.25" filter thread. This hasn't been universally accepted however. Very few Japanese OEM's use this particular standard and TeleVue threads and their compatibility are (unsurprisingly) more similar to Japanese threads than other products in my opinion. Astronomik threads are also not all M28.5 x 0.6. This has nothing to do with being a gentleman or not and everything to do with various manufacturing sources having different standards. It took a while for eyepiece drawtube sizes to standardise, and this wasn't necessarily by consensus but primarily driven by the market. Some manufacturers have decided to set a standard (M28.5 x 0.6) to see if other OEM's will follow. Economic factors have to be taken into account here as re-tooling costs may be prohibitive for some manufacturers, or they are not actually aware of the compatibility problem. You might find this difficult to believe but many Asian OEM's manufacture a wide range of products as well as for amateur astronomy. Filter thread size standardisation is probably a low priority for them.

    Not really, I use a logically deductive method; If I thread a filter into a filter that I know has M28.5 x 0.6 threads and it fits, the odds are it is M28.5 x 0.6. If it does not fit, I assume it isn't M28.5 x 0.6.

    But as I said, I'm no detective.

    I did find this though: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/620065-celestron-mars-filter/

    It's also worth bearing in mind that the Baader Semi-Apo is excellent on Mars, and considered by many to be the best Mars filter.

    https://www.baader-planetarium.com/de/semi-apo-filter.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  18. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that I have a dismal hope to find that this Celestron-badged filter will beat my other many "Mars" filters, don't you? I simply want to test each possible contender and then let them merrily fester until the Universe has it's BIG SUCK and vanishes back into a Singularity and a Brane, right?

    My real top-contenders for the title of 'The Best' are for my tried & true Sirius Optics 2003 MARS filter, and the B+W FL-D Filter. And this is purely speculative.

    Couple this with my knowledge of people seeing differently from one another, along with the mantra I keep expousing astro-folk adopt & live by:

    Experiment! Experiment! Experiment!

    Now I must go feed the Black Widow Spiders I raise to send to those who annoy me.....

    <POIT!>​
     
  19. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you'd read the link from Crowdy Fights, instead of whinging, you would see that Don Pensack states:

    The description sounds exactly like the older Sirius Optics Mars filter and the Orion Mars filter
    (Orion and Celestron have many of the same sources, so it may be the same: speculation)
    A #30 Magenta filter does the same thing with dyed glass rather than dichroic coatings.
    You'll have to let us know if these produce a lot of scattered light, as some of the Mars filters have.

    He may be speculating here, but he has a lot of knowledge about filters. So it might even be similar to the Sirius.

    Incidentally, your mate at Lumicon was right about the new Lumicon filter threads. I told you to ask him if they'd put M28.5 x 0.6 threads on the new ones, and it seems they have. My new Lumicon #8 fits everything. The older others fit about 50% of my EP's or Barlows. I'm impressed that they listened.
     
  20. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I did read the MoldyFrights thread. It told me absolutely nothing of any consequence.

    Don Pensack is entitled to his views.

    I have an S.O. 2003 MARS and can (and planned to) compare the S.O. and all my other filters with the Celestron with all the other.....ad infinitum.

    I think you have a curse placed on you. Perhaps you screwed an old Witch, and her curse was you have problems with screwing things forever!

    They're quite vindictive, you know.

    I think you have me confused with someone else re: Lumicon + Filter-Threads. My beef with them is the change in their formulae and lying about it with an audience of all the Filter-Nuts who could attend what became a Lumicon Press-Conference. I think Don P. was among us for that fiasco.
     

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