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Meade LX70 R5 - 5" Achromatic Refractor OTA

Discussion in 'Telescopes and Mounts' started by Ed D, Nov 11, 2017.

Meade LX70 R5 - 5" Achromatic Refractor OTA

Started by Ed D on Nov 11, 2017 at 3:49 PM

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  1. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    So, I need another telescope like I need a hole in my head. However, High Point Scientific has this one for $299 shipped, a heck of a deal.

    My first question is that I would like to know if a Celestron CG-4 GEM will be adequate to hold this scope? I read somewhere it's rated around 11lb, lighter than my 6" Mak that I mount on the CG-4, but a longer OTA.

    Also, for those of you that have 4.7" to 5" achromats, how are they on planets, moon, and deep sky? For me, deep sky are the brighter objects and double stars.

    I already have both a 127mm Synta Mak and a 150mm Bosma iOptron Mak, as well as an ES AR102. Therefore, I'm not lacking in that aperture range.

    My interest, in addition to the great price, is observing double stars through achromats, and maybe dabble in planets and the moon. I know about CA, but I have filters and a binoviewer to minimize the color fringing and bring the image to better focus. I have also imaged with the achromats I have and have gotten good results. So, it would be a purchase to satisfy my curiosity and scratch my new equipment itch.

    Ed D
     
  2. bladekeeper

    bladekeeper Active Member

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    Hi Ed!

    I have two 5" achromats, a f/6.5 and a f/9.4. The faster scope, of course, exhibits more CA than the slower, but both are quite tolerable to my eye. Plus it is only prevalent with the Moon and the brighter planets. It is mitigated a great deal with a Baader Semi-APO filter.

    Both of these scopes are excellent with double star observing. The slower scope puts up an excellent Moon image, and when I crank up the power, panning along the terminator can be breath taking.

    The faster 5" is a great DSO scope too, excellent with open clusters, globular clusters, planetary nebulae, reflection/emission nebulae, and brighter galaxies.

    They don't have the reach of my 12" dob, but they put up excellent, contrasty views with sharp, pinpoint stars. I love all 6 of my achros. :D
     
  3. Gabby76

    Gabby76 Well-Known Member

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    The CG-4 has a 20lb capacity and should do alright for either of those scopes for visual use.
    At f/8.3 it will do well on double stars and globular clusters will look very nice with it. :)
     
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  4. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I have a 5" (127mm) F.9.3 Meade AR-5 from around 2003. This scope here, at F/8.3, and at $299 - I'd jump on that in a heartbeat! In fact - I am tempted even though..... But naw! I'll let you have the sublime pleasure of the views this will bring!

    The perfect, tiny black-dots of Moon-shadows drifting across the atmosphere of Jupiter brings me goosebumps from the memory alone!

    Wow!

    Dave
     
  5. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    I waited too long thinking about getting the scope, then life took a really bad turn for us - the wife was critically ill, but pulled through and is recovering. I looked again but too late, the scopes were out of stock. I kept looking and looking, but nothing. I looked again this morning and NADA. Bummer!!! Then, I just happened to look a few minutes ago, and son-of-a-gun, they're back in stock. Needless to say I have had long enough to think and one is on the way. I'll post when I get it and run it through its paces.

    Ed D
     
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  6. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I wish Meade would stop the practice of calling a 4.7" scope a 5" scope. In science, this sets a bad precedent. In chemistry - it would launch you into the ionosphere! :p

    That's my only snarl for this. I'm guess is the scope is a metric 120mm.

    Looking foreward to your 'First Light!' Congratulations -

    Dave
     
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  7. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    The scope arrived earlier this evening, 12/8/2017. My first impression when the UPS delivery person brought out the box was "Man, is this BIG!". Brought it into the garage and unboxed it. There were three boxes in the shipping box, one for the scope, another for the accessories, and one that was simply a spacer. So I opened the scope box and, "WOW, is this BIG!".

    I looked the scope over and was really impressed. The tube has three baffles, and the focuser tube also has three baffles. Inside the tube and focuser tube Meade applied a textured black paint that seems to soak up all ambient light. The dew shield extends 5" past the lens cell and keeps out neighbor's lights. The Crown/Flint lenses look nice and appear to have good coatings.

    The scope came with a nice 2" star diagonal that is totally made of aluminum and is an impressive performer. No, it's no Baader/Zeiss, but it does do a good job. I'm impressed. Also included were a couple of Plossl eyepieces, some tools, and one of those unimpressive little finder scopes. I put all the accessories back in the box to store them with the exception of the diagonal.

    The only mount I have that is robust enough to handle this scope is my CG-4. Did I mention that "Wow, this thing is big"? After I mounted it I centered Betelgeuse in the field of view and adjusted my GLP. Defocusing the image showed a concentric bull's eye in and out of focus. Collimation was spot on. The focuser is typical Chino R&P, but it is smooth enough without any slop. It's entirely usable.

    My first target was the Orion Nebula. With the 24mm Hyperion Orion's Sword almost fit into the field of view. The nebula itself was pretty bright with some texture being visible. I tried my AS Research O-III, but the very best view was with my DGM-NPB filter and 12.5mm ED eyepiece.

    I then swung over to some doubles and multiple stars, both in Orion and other constellations. I was rewarded with pretty sharp and bright stars, and splitting them at lower powers was no big deal. I was also impressed by the colors, especially the red carbon star in Eta Cassiopeia. I then pointed the scope at Sirius to see the 'dreaded' purple haze. Yeah, there is purple visible, but come on, it's not bad at all.

    When I swung over to the Double Cluster my jaw almost hit the concrete. There were so many bright little sharp stars in the field of view, and the colors were there. I think this scope has the largest aperture to maximize light gathering and show the most while keeping the background sky dark enough for good contrast. The Double Cluster looks even better through this scope than it does through my 10" Dob. Keep in mind I'm in extremely heavy light pollution which affects scope performance adversely.

    I already love this scope. Did I mention that "Wow, this thing is big!"? But, it's not so big it won't get used. I'm looking forward to pointing it at the moon and planets. I can't believe that I picked up a larger aperture achro that performs so well for so little money.

    Ed D
     
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  8. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations, Ed!

    On your telescope arriving, and thank you for a wonderful report! Very nicely written and in unique prose.

    Now back to my snarling - Amazon conspired - along with the USPS - to lose my new filter and planetary eyepiece.

    <grumble!> <thoughts of dismemberment...>

    R & D
     
  9. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    Now that I actually got a good 7hr night's sleep, a first in almost two months, I can reflect a bit more on the scope and last night's first light. First, have I mentioned that "WOW, this thing is BIG!"? OK, so it's not like a huge observatory scope, but it is a large instrument and does have some heft to it. The large lens up front makes it a bit front heavy. Who cares! It comes with nice rings that let me adjust the point of balance.

    I like the scope as is and don't plan on sinking a fortune into it. One item I do want to make is a handle to install on top of the rings. The tube diameter is large enough so I don't feel 100% confident hanging on to it when I mount it. A handle would be nice. The only other item I may consider, and keep in mind money is tight and I'm a little bit of a cheapskate, is a two speed Crayford focuser. The factory R&P, while it's no Moonlite, is very serviceable. So, maybe... (probably not).

    I can't help but wonder why Meade chose to discontinue this scope. Even at the full price of $399 it is a steal of a deal, and it gives A LOT for the money. It really is a very well made scope that performs admirably. I'm not easily impressed, but this one did it. Many/most of the reviews I read about this scope were favorable. While it is true that I did see some purple around Sirius, a tough test for any refractor, the purple was not at all objectionable. The view of the Double Cluster in Perseus was incredibly sharp and detailed. Once cooled this scope can really perform. It does need time to cool.

    This scope reminds me a lot of the Orion XT-6 I used to have. Low cost, good performance and easy handling. What's not to like? Anyway, they say it didn't really happen if there are no pictures, so.....

    IMG_20171208_192537.jpg
    Did I mention this thing is BIG?

    IMG_20171208_194049.jpg
    I like the color scheme.

    IMG_20171208_210623.jpg
    Sure is pretty and performs as good as it looks.

    I really like my large achromat.

    Ed D
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
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  10. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    Dave, any hope of your filter and eyepiece being found? A few years ago I ordered an eyepiece around this same time of the year. The mail carrier, who I was friends with and have no reason not to believe, said it was delivered. I strongly believe a certain little munchkin who used to live in the neighborhood helped himself to my package. Anyway, best of luck in getting your order.

    Ed D
     
  11. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Ed. But I always demand tracking-data - and keep my eyes & ears perked - to lessen such chance. The tracking-data, which the damn USPS is supposed to email me updates on (hasn't!), indicates they sent it North from Florida (Amazon warehouse), then it took a sharp left to the West, and where it's gone from there? They don't know.

    Imbeciles!

    I'll get back to you later on that beautiful (classic looking) telescope! I'll write-up a piece on these beauties - as you know I have a very similar creature myself.

    Here's to the USPS:


    west.jpg
     
  12. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    I had the scope out again last night. I spent most of the night cursing the light pollution, which is now worse because of the holidays. It's sad when I can barely see only one of the clusters in Auriga. I did enjoy splitting the few double/multiple stars I was able to find.

    I left the scope outside with a tarp over it so I could use it this morning on Mars and the moon. I installed the Baader Neodymium filter in the Baader prism diagonal, and used 32mm, 15mm and 10mm Plossls, along with my TV 3x Barlow. The best views were with the 15mm Vixen Plossl, the Barlow bumping the mag up to 200x.

    The first thing I noticed about Mars was the lack of purple fringing, and the disk was sharp. I was able to make out Elysium as a brighter albedo feature near the center of the disk. I also saw white along the right edge of the disk, that being the Hellas Basin. I also saw a hint of the polar cap.

    I then installed the Yellow #8 filter in the bottom of the eyepiece and slewed over to the moon. Checking out the edge I noticed very little color, about on par with high magnification views through a faster f/ratio ED Doublet. Craters showed good detail on the terraced walls and the view was sharp.

    I am liking this scope a lot, especially being able to use lower magnifications to fit larger objects in the field of view, such as the Double Cluster or Orion's Sword. Stars are well defined and sharp, much better than my old XT-6, making it a very good double star scope. It's a keeper that fills a niche.

    Ed D
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  13. Gabby76

    Gabby76 Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on the new scope Ed. I love my big achromats.
     
  14. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    I have been having a lot of fun with my new R5. I especially enjoy double stars with this larger achromat, which are sharp with very nice color. So far I have been mounting the scope on my CG-4. It works well, but I really like Alt-Az mounts, especially when I want to observe several doubles in different parts of the sky.

    I have an old Vixen Polaris, the trick little mount that easily works as either a GEM or an Alt-Az and is rated for 15# loads. Last night I set the mount up as Alt-Az. I quickly discovered that I need to use the counterweights on the opposite side. I also extended the legs to get more height, making observing comfortable even near zenith.

    I like using my Plossl eyepieces on doubles. With the 1.25" diagonal and Plossls the scope is front heavy and it balances further back in the rings. Once everything was set up I started looking at doubles. Using the mount as Alt-Az makes it easier for me to find them, especially in the heavy LP in my area. The movements are silky smooth. Once on target I like to snug the locks and track with the slow motion controls. The old mount works great with the R5 and is very comfortable to use.

    Ed D
     
  15. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I remain very impressed by this refractor! And you're quite correct: It is big! I know from my own 127mm F9.3 beast! And that's all part of the charm of big refractors - they really look the part of what a telescope is supposed to look like, usually situated in a big, circular building replete with ladders and various gears and knobs.

    The first time I aimed mine at Jupiter is still firmly recorded in my minds' eye. The perfectly symetrical oh so very BLACK dots of the shadows of two moons gracefully gliding in the clouds of the Jovian-atmosphere is a sight I'll never forget. Or ever want to! A true image of the word 'beautiful' is all I can say.

    And it's these crystalline views that creates a lifetime fan of these seemingly unwieldy instruments. And the Martian opposition coming up next year is calling us all to our favored tools for viewing such. The one in 2003 was met by my 5" AR-5, and I wouldn't even consider swapping-out for my 12" SCT. The big refractors are the tool of choice.

    No contest at all.

    Dave



    EightInchTelescope.JPG
    A classic 8" achromatic refractor.
     
  16. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    Dave, I'm glad I jumped on the opportunity to get this nice achro, especially for $300 shipped to my door!

    After having used it several nights I found the focuser stiff to rack in and out. Fine focus was challenging, and I was really thinking of replacing the focuser with a two speed Crayford. Well, last night I was looking at the scope and decided to play with the four little screws which attach the plate that holds the pinion in. What a difference that made!!! The focuser now has a light and smooth feel, and the focuser tube has zero play throughout its travel. It works so well I didn't even bother dealing with the dreaded Synta grease. After I play with it a bit more I will either use loctite blue on the threads, or shims between the plate and body to limit adjustment.

    APOs are nice and I do have a couple of them. However, achromats have a place and are very nice instruments, especially for much less mula.

    Ed D
     
  17. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I'm very familiar with 'Synta Grease' (Elmer's Glue?). I had an epic struggle getting the visual back and focuser off my AR-5 127mm Meade Refractor! And a new adapter-plate on it to bolt in my 2-speed Crayford. Glad you're happy with the factory one. I had a JMI MotoFocus (out-of-business/sold) on mine for over 10 years before I went Crayford-happy! Meade really did use epoxy to hold the focuser in place on the AR-5 and AR-6's. I was walking-around-the-OTA (lens removed first) and pounding it up & (hopefully) off with a 5lbs. hard-rubber mallet!

    I presented a sight! Agena wanted me to take pictures to show people how to do it. I got the first, and last, of that new batch of adapters from Antares. After I verbally described the procedure I was forced to follow - they sent them back for a re-design. You needed to be a skilled (and extremely dexterious) mechanic to pull that uninstall/install off! :eek: :D

    Glad I didn't take photos - they'd show me walking around an innocent telescope-tube while beating it with a huge hammer that looked straight out of The Three Stooges! :p

    <THUD!>
     
  18. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    Woke up at 5:30 this morning and decided to observe Mars and Jupiter. I have an old Agena Astro 7.5mm ED eyepiece that is very similar to the old Celestron X-Cel, but better and sharper without the bad blackout issues of the X-Cel. These haven't been available ever since the deadly 2011 Tsunami that devastated Japan. Anyway, I find it amazing how this one eyepiece cuts back on the CA. Jupiter was quite a sight at 133x, even as far from us as it currently is. Wish I would have bought the whole eyepiece set back then. 20/20 Hindsight never fails!

    I have tested the R5 side by side with my 127mm Mak. It's a toss up, each scope having unique characteristics. The R5 does cool faster than the Mak, which is one of the main reasons I got it. On various lunar craters I could not see any more or less detail through both scopes at equivalent exit pupils. The only difference is the R5 gives a noticeably brighter and warmer image. Both scopes are nice.

    With that big chunk of glass up front and the very high tropical humidity down here I had been having issues with dew. I began using the Astro-Zap dew shield for my 127mm Synta Mak. When I install it I cover the aluminum shield to insulate it. The Astro-Zap also extends further out than the factory shield. This morning the humidity was at 100% and guess what, no dew on the objective! Everything else was wet.

    I had been wanting to test the working aperture of this scope. I used the collimated laser method and the working aperture is dead on at 120mm.

    OK, enough of my nonsense. Y'all have a great New Year!

    Ed D
     
  19. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    I got the AstroZap from Celestron for my 150mm F12 Mak. It was cheaper as it says CELESTRON on it (other side). Works fine!


    IMG_1214.JPG

    Happy New Fear!
     
  20. Ed D

    Ed D Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did the unthinkable, at least unthinkable to most. I'm a die-hard tinkerer that likes extracting maximum performance from my toys, be they cars or scopes. I felt that performance of the R-5 could be improved, sooo.....

    I took the lens cell off and removed the Crown/Flint elements. The lens edges were not blackened, which I proceeded to rectify using the Sharpie method. I wasn't satisfied with the sloppy way the factory one-size-fits-all spacer ring fit between the lenses, and felt I could tune the elements better, more to my liking. Eventually I made three spacers that tested well. Finally, I indexed the two elements. It did make a difference in my lens set. After a good cleaning I assembled the lens cell and checked alignment and collimation. All appeared well. WARNING: This is not a job for the faint of heart, nor do I recommend undertaking such a project without a good understanding of how achromatic doublets work. Also, one needs the patience of a saint because tuning involved a lot of trial and error over many nights.

    I have since used the scope on several nights/mornings under different conditions, and on a variety of objects. Contrast increased very noticeably, mostly from blackening the lens edges. The three spacers I made reduced CA, and shifted the colors toward a slightly warmer view, which is what I want for planets. The images are really sharp and well defined, no doubt the positive effect of indexing the lens elements and ensuring good alignment and collimation. The first diffraction rings on brighter stars have been noticeably lessened, the energy being transferred to the airy disk.

    I have used the scope on clusters, both globular and open, as well as on nebulae, double stars, etc, all with excellent performance. Earlier this morning I gave it the 'acid test' - Jupiter. Conditions were not ideal, with high humidity, clouds and haze. The first thing I noticed was the bands were very distinct and detail really popped out. The GRS was front and center. I could clearly see the orange color, as well as the darker center within. The wake also stood out well. CA was minimal to non-existent, depending on eyepiece and exit pupil/magnification. I used my 9mm Orion Expanse (111x) and 7.5mm Agena ED (133x).

    I also spied Mars, which is still challenging. Using higher magnifications, at times reaching over 200x, I could see Syrtis Major, the frost in Hellas, as well as polar ice. This was really pushing the limits of a 4.7" achromatic refractor.

    They say it didn't happen unless there are pictures. These are some of the pics I took to document how the parts went together.

    Ed D

    IMG_20180204_131540.jpg
    These are the retaining ring, plastic split ring that goes between the retaining ring and lens,
    and a rubber/plastic base ring for the lens assembly so it doesn't contact the cell directly.
    Not shown is the factory spacer ring that goes between the Crown and Flint lenses.

    IMG_20180204_131604.jpg
    The Crown/Flint elements after blackening the edges. I did not blacken the bevels.

    IMG_20180204_131649.jpg
    View of the threaded front of the tube. The lens cell screws on to the tube.

    IMG_20180219_083648.jpg
    Visible are the three spacers I made. They are not in the light path.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2018

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