If you save up $550CDN, don't get a TeleVue®. See a psychiatrist instead!

Well that's not really fair. I broke down and bought one TV® Eyepiece - and a few Plössls. The actual TeleVue® I choose was a 24mm Panoptic. I still have it. It's a good eyepiece with my favorite FOV at 68° which is comfortable to take the entire 'picture' into one look without needing to move my head around or eye all over the map. Comparing notes with a colleague, the Panoptic is the pick-of-the-litter TV® choice among the herd of this brand - with the person I know having chosen the 19mm Panoptic.

Besides - if I see one more display-photo of someones' case of 'green-lettered' eyepieces, I just might scream! Ostentatious microcephalic's with a camera bore me. Might as well just frame some $100 bills in a golden frame and hang that on their wall. 'CLICK!' 'CLICK!' 'CLICK!' 'CLICK!' "Oh! Yes! More! Oh-YES! YES!"

The preceding rant is mine and might even be mine alone.

 

I think that's a bit unfair on Stu, his aperture isn't that small, I just think he has problems with a floppy altitude control. lol

 

If I loaned you my Electric-Drill, wouldn't you like to bore him too?

 

That sounds like thrilling drilling.

 

If you save up $550CDN, don't get a TeleVue®. See a psychiatrist instead!

====================

What's the country of origin for the Panoptic? Japan or China?

I think if the eyepiece is Made in Japan or Made in the USA or any modern country where I know the workers are highly paid, I would accept the 550$ price, it's obvious we can't build high quality at low price here in Canada for instance with the unions and etc.

If it's made in Japan then, I fully understand the price tag for this high quality eyepiece. If it's made in Taiwan, then it's completely another story.

 

Can't tell you, Nebs. I bought mine back in 2001 or 2. I believe it was USA then. I'm quite sure in saying it's a new, unlevel playing field today.

If you manage to pry-bar the answer up for today - please do let us know?

Thanks!

 

Taiwan.

The Panoptics are superbly built and engineered, hence the high price. There are Pentax and Vixen eyepieces just as expensive. Not everything made in Taiwan or even mainland China is substandard.

 

http://www.company7.com/televue/telal.html

'These prototype 13mm Nagler eyepieces were all made in the United States and air spaced elements were multi layer anti reflection coated. However, Mr. Nagler noting the high cost of production in the U.S. compared to the costs overseas and aware of the ability of Japanese manufacturers to consistently manufacture small lenses to very stringent specifications, decided the future production Nagler models would be made in Japan, and some models would eventually be made in Taiwan.' op cit

 

Yeah Neb's, while the assumption that Japan and, nowadays, Taiwan indicated poor craftsmanship - take a good look at Guang Sheng Optics' (GSO) turn-around. Once thought to be schlok garbage for the most part, GSO is now a leader in sales due to the quality of their workmanship. Not the low cost.

They now make incredibly good materials, while keeping excellent, low prices on their goods! Excellent business plan, in my view. I am impressed!

You're a bit behind the times, my friend.

D.


p.s. - Synta - also on that band-wagon of great stuff cheap - is made in the P.R. China.

 

Synta, Barsta and GSO are all Taiwanese companies, Barsta and Synta have very modern factories on the Chinese mainland. TV eyepieces are expensive because of their build quality. Even TV Plossls are built like Bentleys lol.

 

Chinese workers are perhaps more skilled they us. With no unions, no human right and living in an authoritarian regime with nothing to eat, you better be good at what you do. You receive a whiplash if you get lazy or jaded at work.

Nice quality comes out of China often, yes.

=====================

I can't say more about the subject of Televue unless I try a Panoptic, >500CAD vs a ES 230CAD, both are made in China . I want to see with my own eyes if the quality of the Televue is it worth 270$ extra, that's a big extra and without the argument that TV is made in Japan or USA.. then I am not fully comfortable about the double price.

Especially if the overall quality of the TV is 10% or less. If the TV was made in the USA with 5% more overall greatness then the double price is justified because the American worker is much more expensive.

Also, perhaps they use Gold, Platinum or other rare ores in their eyepieces, perhaps their workers in Taiwan are paid the same has in the USA. Many things possible.

Ill tell it simply now: I wonder if the 270$ extra is pure profit. Probably not.. we can't be sure..

It's just for discussion.. no hard feelings nothing like that...

 

I remember from @Dave In Vermont texts, from memory it was a discussion about filters from Lumicon. The guy was saying to keep the original filter the same thing it was, it would now cost $600. Something similar to that, I would have to reopen the papers to be sure.

We hear arguments like these often at the job from distributors. Usually we call the next guy when that happens simply. Liberty and the power to choose. Unlike China were you have to power to struggle hard or die...

 

Chinese workers are perhaps as skilled as anyone else. With living in a subsidised economy based on Keynesian economic policies where the government invests in its own infrastructure for long term fiscal gain. They receive a subsidised wage in proportion to the Chinese economy as a whole.

Fixed that for you.

I'm not sure what planet you're living on but TV eyepieces are made in Japan and Taiwan.

Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC), is a state in East Asia.[15][16][17] Its neighbours include the People's Republic of China (PRC) to the west, Japan to the northeast, and the Philippines to the south. It is the most populous state and largest economy that is not a member of the United Nations.

In the early 1960s, Taiwan entered a period of rapid economic growth and industrialisation, creating a stable industrial economy. In the 1980s and early 1990s, it changed from a one-party military dictatorship dominated by the Kuomintang to a multi-party democracy with a semi-presidential system. Taiwan is the 22nd-largest economy in the world, and its high-tech industry plays a key role in the global economy. It is ranked highly in terms of freedom of the press, healthcare,[18] public education, economic freedom, and human development.[c][13][19] The country benefits from a highly skilled workforce and is among the most highly educated countries in the world with one of the highest percentages of its citizens holding a tertiary education degree.[20][21] ~ Wikipedia

The build quality of TV's is easily far superior to ES eyepieces and rivals Pentax. I'm guessing you don't understand what I mean by build quality so I'll use an automotive analogy:

TeleVue = Bentley



Explore Scientific = Vauxhall

Did you learn your economic theory from the 1972 Beano Annual?



I'm only asking because the Beano Annual, although funny, isn't so hot on global economics.

I'd still go with the build quality thing.

Yes we can, it's still the build quality.

Yes, we've discussed it. TeleVue eyepieces cost what they do because of their intrinsic build quality.

 

Oh Mak? There's now a great write-up on Wratten #'s by Kodak on the '2 New Filter's for Mars' thread I split-up to fit in here. You may be interested in same, though I aimed it at Neb as we were relating some stories on blow-hards who piddle in other filter-peoples' Corn Flakes®.

Have fun!

<typo corrected>

 

OK thanks Dave.

 

@Mak the Night.. I appreciate your efforts but it's not convincing me more then before (has well has the Taiwan subject) . I will need to try one to see if the extra is worth it or not, that's the only way to be sure.

Even if I read 50 pages or arguments...

 

It's not a complicated argument Neb. I also fail to see how you can't distinguish between Taiwan (Republic of China) and mainland China (People's Republic of China).

Taiwan, Republic of China (ROC) ~


China, People's Republic of China (PRC) ~


There is a distinct difference. Taiwanese businesses like GSO, Barsta and Synta have factories on the Chinese mainland to take advantage of the PRC's heavily subsidised economy. They are still Taiwanese companies. Although GSO do actually manufacture a lot of their products in Taiwan itself.

You can try TV eyepieces until the cows come home, the reason they cost what they do is that they have ... better build quality ... than less expensive eyepieces such as ES and the like.

I don't really know how to explain this with any more lucidity. I thought the car analogy would do it. The Bentley and the Vauxhall pictured above are both perfectly good cars. The Bentley is more expensive because it's predominantly hand built and manufactured from the finest materials &/or parts money can buy. The Vauxhall does the same job getting you from A to B, it just doesn't have the same build quality as it was mass produced, most probably in a partially automated factory.

 

You are one aggressive man @Mak the Night

It's not important anymore what I think about Televue or Taiwan. Let's say you've won the argument simply. After a few messages it's obvious it's a similar discussion has a US democrat talking with a US republican, there is not way anybody will convince the other party of anything.

I concede you the win and retract myself from the subject.

 

Sorry, I was just trying to explain why some EP's are more expensive than others. It's not a matter of who's won, just a matter of what's correct.

I'm pretty sure if Bentley and TeleVue could lower the retail prices on their respective products whilst still maintaining the same quality they would.

 

Just noticed that my 18.2mm DeLite was made in Japan. Probably explains the dodgy quality control with two 7mm DeLites I had to return. lol



I thought they would be ROC.



The DeLite is ergonomically superb and like an orthoscopic on steroids, yet Barlows and reduces well.