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Observing with Small Apertures: 130mm and Below

Discussion in 'Telescopes and Mounts' started by Ray of Light, Jul 26, 2016.

Observing with Small Apertures: 130mm and Below

Started by Ray of Light on Jul 26, 2016 at 5:34 AM

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  1. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Ah! A transmission-graph! Yay! At least sort of.....

    If you could scan~otherwise reproduce a clearer copy, you'd make this Filter-Nut a happier camper. our CE1 come with a number on it's form showing how many of these are loose on the Earth - 7,179. Mine is 3048.

    Who is Number 1? :cool: (guess who's been watching episodes of 'The Prisoner' on youtube...)

    I'll be very interested in your impressions on the CE1. The only other Sirius Filter I have is a Mars 2003 Filter from that jaw-dropping event. It was truly fantastic - both the Opposition and the filter! Untill a planet-wide dust-storm blew into town and occluded the entire planet. But I didn't mind - I got a full night with the filter, and quite a few without. It was absolutely incredible. No wonder Schiaparelli & Lowell tripped-out and "saw" canals!

    Until you mentioned the CE1's, I was unaware that Sirius was still operating.

    Thanks!

    Dave - in Filter-Nut mode


    Sirius Optics Mars 2003 Filter - PNG.png
     
  2. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I'll try and take a better jpeg of the graph. I'll have to test the CE1 properly and see what it's like.

    IMG_20170405_191227.jpg

    The Solomark Crystalview Moon Filter and Light Pollution Filters arrived. I think the claims of M28.5 x 0.6 threads is a bit jackanory as they had difficulties fitting into all of my Williams Optics diagonals and an Antares diagonal, although they seemed OK on GSO, Celestron, Omegon and Orion diagonals. Both threaded into a Circle T orthoscopic, although not into any other Japanese orthoscopic threads. They both threaded smoothly into Celestron, TeleVue, Sky-Watcher, GSO and Vixen eyepieces but not all Meade Plossls that I tried.

    I spent some time comparing them (I included the Moon & Skyglow) and even tried them on a daylight (19:30 BST) Moon at 40x.

    sch1.jpg

    I thought I could see slightly more detail in Schickard with the dedicated LP filter, although that was probably due to the slightly more intense contrast.

    http://binocularreviews.northernopt...low-filter-vs-ostara-crystalview-moon-filter/

    The link above more or less explains the difference, although technically it is referencing Ostara versions. Personally I thought the Solomark M&SG was roughly inbetween the Solomark Crystalview Moon Filter and Light Pollution Filter in performance.

    Apparently you can contact Sirius at: sales@siriusoptics.com
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2017
  3. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Cool!

    Thanks, Mak -

    Dave
     
  4. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome Dave.

    IMG_20170406_131447.jpg

    This is about the best I could do with the CE1 transmission graph.
     
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  5. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0666.JPG
    Speaking of filters! Kidding aside. I pulled the trigger on the Solomark Solar filter, seems very nice and looks just like solar filter I have for the 102. I also got the Helio-Pod Solar finder since it is easily removable and I have no need for it to be permanent. It was also quite inexpensive. Thanks for the tip on that one Dave. Will hopefully give that a whirl soon. I still don't have a Baader Solar Continuum filter but I do have a Lumicon #56 light green which helps to reveal granulation and other solar details. Back later and thanks!
     
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  6. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Looks good Ray. I'm really starting to think that all these filters are coming out of the same factory, the varying retail prices probably reflect the different mark up prices. I paid £15.99 (19.93 USD) for the Solomark Light Pollution filter. I've seen identical looking Sky-Watcher LP filters from £19 to nearly £30.

    01 16 transit.jpg

    I just hope the weather holds for Friday. Although, that's technically after midnight tonight lol.

    transit.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  7. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Very nicely done, Ray! Looks very much like mine. You'll love the Helio-Pod, Ray - finding the Sun and putting it (SAFELY) dead-center in your eyepiece couldn't possibly be easier. As you'll see.

    One question though, Ray - what type of AltAz mount is that on? I think I know, but I would to be certain. It looks rather like the one's Orion was offering which were dysfuntional and would slip & drop anything weighing more than a few ounces - while listed as having a 10lbs. payload. These were the ones I fixed with some sandpaper and glue and a rubber-band. :p

    For a hoot, here's Orion's manual on these Turkeys. Note - this shows the payload-limit at 4lbs - when the tried to get rid of 'em by dropping the price to 1/3rd. Then they realized 4lbs was 4 too many - and withdrew them:

    Orion AZ-4 Mount.pdf

    And with an ST80 as a dedicated Solar-Scope (before replacing the SW-ST80 with an Orion), and the Thousand-Oaks Solar-Filter mounted:

    ST80 Outfitted For Use As SolarTelescope80 a.JPG


    Enjoy -

    Dave


    p.s. - Thanks for the much-improved image of the 'tranny' for the CE1. I filed it away in the ol' Miles-O'-Files I maintain.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  8. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Thursday, April 6th, 2017. 22:15 ~ 00:00 BST.

    Telescope: 130mm Sky-Watcher Explorer, Orion EZII reflex sight, Baader helical focuser, EQ2 mount.

    Eyepieces: 7mm Kokusai Kohki Fujiyama HD-OR, 6.4mm Meade 4000 Plossl, 6mm Vixen NPL (slightly modified with smooth drawtube), 5mm TS Optics Planetary HR, 4mm Sky-Watcher UWA, TeleVue 2x Barlow. Filters: Baader Neodymium, Solomark Crystalview Moon Filter, Sirius Optics CE-1 Contrast Enhancer.

    Jupiter: azimuth 311.8°, altitude 20.8°, 5.456 au (Virgo). I observed Jupiter for the first hour, then switched to the Moon, finally in the last quarter of an hour switched back to Jupiter at 257x.

    jupiter.jpg

    Conditions/transparency could have been better but the EZ, NEZ & SEZ were clearly visible with some detail at 150 & 180x. The GRS was very apparent and could easily be tracked as it moved out of sight. The CE-1 filter didn’t really help and although improved contrast I couldn’t discern the GRS until I changed to the Baader Neodymium. Also, the rich Jovian colours were easily distinguished with the neodymium filter, something impossible with a yellow filter.


    Moon: azimuth 9.2°, altitude 45.1°, 0.003 au/388,103 km (Leo)

    Started off with the 4mm SW UWA and the neodymium for 225x. The ‘Moon Maiden’ (Promontorium Heraclides) looked superb, best I’ve seen for a while. Huge amount of detail in Copernicus. Montes Riphaeus, Longomontanus and Clavius were superb at 281x with the Crystalview filter.

    HERACLIDES A.jpg

    At 300x with the CE-1 Copernicus and the Montes Riphaeus seemed to show more contrasted detail and the image appeared very sharp. It wasn’t too difficult getting used to the ‘mustard’ colour imparted by the Sirius Optics filter. Central mountains and steep slopes of Copernicus were also very defined with the CE-1.

    MONTES RIPHAEUS.jpg

    Images ~ VMA, CDC, GIMP
     
  9. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    My picture is of the stock mount that came with my Meade 102. I looked closely and there are differences between
    mine and the picture you sent. My mount holds everything I can throw at it. It's not perfect, but it is quite strong and fulfills my needs for now. And while the TV Sol Searcher is mounted kind of permanently, the Helio-Pod can be removed easily and I like that. They both look good though. Thanks again Dave. Oh, I have to make a correction; the Solar filter is a Gosky, not a Solomark. The two I have are both Gosky and are made very well and use the Baader Solar Safety Film.
     
  10. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty convinced the Meade mounts are different to the Synta ones. I don't think Meade do a 'chocolate teapot' lol. I'd bet money Solomark and Gosky are the same thing.
     
  11. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with you on both points.
     
  12. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Dave's right about the AZ4 'chocolate teapot', it's a turkey alright, but it's Synta and Meade don't source from Synta. Everyone seems to be flogging the AZ4's off cheap. I wonder why? Gobble, gobble ... is it because it's bit of a turkey ... gobble, gobble? ROTFL
     
  13. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - and that's what threw me. It looks like the AZ-3's in the UK & Europe, but I don't know for certain if they are over here, too. Me thinks I'll go take a look.....

    The one I was referring to is this one that Agena has, but it's branded as 'Celestron.' I'd say that lets these off the proverbial hook. Meade putting their telescope on a Celestron mount? They'd probably burst into flames! But it could be that they are the same mount - just rebranded. So it could be the same AZ-3 mounts I see being sold & used in the UK, so it may be a Synta. Or even a GSO? Hmmm.....

    See what you think, Ray? You have the thing and can make the best call! Here's the <koff!> 'Celestron Heavy Duty Alt-Azimuth Tripod:'


    Celestron Heavy Duty Alt-Azimuth Tripod.jpg They seem to be highly regarded as the Skywatcher AZ-3 in Europa & the UK. I was thinking of getting one over here, but my need has vanished. Now I have an extra AZ-4 as I pulled the trigger for a Vixen Porta II for my Maksutov. Though over here, the Skywatcher AZ-4 is sold by Orion as their re-branded 'VersaGo II."

    And this causes my suspicion they ARE of Synta-birth. Or whoever actually makes them in China! I think we'll all have the equivalent of a degree from the Harvard School of Economics & Business and the World Bank by chasing these things down as we are! :eek: :D

    Now I'm off to do some more tracking..... I'll see you gentlemen a bit later,

    Dave :rolleyes:
     
  14. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    What makes me think that the Meade and Celestron/Sky-Watcher/Orion mounts are different is that Orion source a lot of their gear from Synta, who own Celestron and Sky-Watcher. Whilst Meade are owned by Ningbo Sunny. As far as I can tell Ningbo Sunny and Synta are rivals.
     
  15. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    I caught the Jupiter opposition at 21:30 BST. I'd set up a good hour before and had been observing the Moon until 21:30 when Jupiter was 301.5° SE azimuth, 15.3° altitude (Virgo).

    oppo1.jpg

    Gassendi was very defined at 225x, 281x and 300x.

    GASSENDI.jpg

    I switched to the 5mm TS Optics Planetary HR for most of the opposition session (180x for an 0.72mm exit pupil).

    Ganymede 2130.jpg

    Detail and colours were good considering the low altitude and general conditions. Also used the 7mm Fujiyama for an almost exactly 1mm exit pupil for 128.5x (both with a Baader Neodymium).

    Ganymede transit1.jpg

    Also saw Ganymede transit from a round black disc to a bright moon.

    Ganymede transit2.jpg
     
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  16. Dave In Vermont

    Dave In Vermont Well-Known Member

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    It's rather a moot point until Ray tells us if the "Meade" mount he has looks the same as, or different from, the one I posted.

    I don't dispute your ownership-chain, of course, but if they are the same - "Houston, we have problem!" This would (should?) tell us that Synta is getting their mounts (at least) from another outfit. Is this "other" the same as Meade is buying from? And then the chase/tracking will be on.

    Now for the AZ-4/VersaGoII: Mak - you say they are right-gobblers? Why do you think this? They have many, many fans in the Realm of the Dark Lord (try not to say what I can hear you thinking right now! :p), but why this is compels me to conclude FEAR may play a significant role. The 'Realm' has made it clear to the membership that giving bad reviews will not be tolerated. They offered to throw me out for throwing some bricks at MicroShaft for their Windows 10 - quite publicly - and warned all to be nothing but 'sweetness & light' in our words for any/all God-like Vendors! Hallelujah! (of course they later broke their own Holy Doctrine when MS destroyed a few of their computers - Hallelujah!) But my reason for relegating my AZ-4 to a unused spot in my collection was it is close to impossible to keep it from 'dancing' about with the slightest attempt to smoothly track an object. That they have a desperate need for control-cables - as a manual-only one they bite - and LONG cables at that.

    I managed to vastly improve the stability by means of a 10lb. weight hanging from the center-bolt under the mount-head, which acts to add a second frequency of vibrations which cancel each other out (from a mostly unknown law of physics), but I rather doubt other folks had figured that out - so I posted it far & wide.

    So in all, therein lay my reason to relegate this Holiday-Gobbler to 'inactive status.' I'm sure it would be fine with low-power viewing and vast starfields as targets (with the weight, of course), so it awaits an ST80 or similar scope. Once I get around to fully repairing and restoring my older blue-tube Skywatcher ST80, my AZ-4 may well be put back in the 'active duty' camp.

    I'm quite sure there are many others out yonder who share your sentiments on these mounts. I wonder how many other forums out there won't tolerate their members' negative critiques. My method of redress to the actions of the Dark Lord's resulted in a change of paradigm which should be well-known by folks who find themselves in similar situations (and resulted first by ALL of your "Friends" ( :D ) piling into my profile's 'About Me' section). Now the members' are being treated with utter civility and friendliness (and heaping praise and 'Likes' on us - especially me - which is creeping me out!). So I posted as follows before they changed their evil ways:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Aside from my love of sciences and astronomy in it's many forms, I've found myself to be a political-activist in the USA. My pet-issues began as civil-rights, and remain so, with an addition that I've noted has become necessary due to a serious deteriorization of our constitutional guaranteed right to freedom of speech.

    As many of my fellow citizens blindly become the entreé - du - jour in the parable of "Frog Soup," I refuse to allow this to spiral upwards without comment or shining a light down the dark-tunnel to illuminate this issue.

    Two of my favorite quotes:

    "The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power." - Franklin Delano Roosevelt in the 1940's

    "We Are Anonymous, We Are Legion. We Do Not Forgive. We Do Not Forget. Expect Us."
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sorry if this seems off-tangential, Mak - but it's why this forum is so nice. We are writing the desired rules & methodology as we converse here. Most forums would go birdhouse-nuts over a "thread - without - end" as is being done here & now! So these 'minor-details' are not so 'minor' at all. It's what makes A-C superior to other fora. (fora = plural for 'forums').

    So now a visit to the Meade website is on the menu for me tonight. I am going to try to glean more insight into these mounts like your's, Ray. I've been thinking of salting-away an AZ-3 for a rainy night. I've been seeing more & more folks' writing how well made and stable they are (with light telescopes, and not as long as an Elephants' trunk :p). My collection of telescopes covers all the bases as stands, but I know me well enough to know I'll get itchy when I see a smaller telescope somewhere - smaller being the direction I'm so enjoying in this great thread! Speaking/thinking of smaller, I'll put Astromart on my hunting-maps. They have some very bright people with a great knowledge of such things - like you, Mak. I could check-out RowdyFights, but my 'Whip & Chair' are in the shop for a tune-up tonight.....

    Woof!

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2017
  17. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Dave, I meant the AZ3 was the turkey. It has slo mo controls but suffers from altitude drift. I'm not the only person to be plagued by this. I'm also fairly certain Synta actually manufacture the mounts. Although I honestly don't know about the tripods themselves. My original Vixen Porta tripod looks suspiciously similar to my Sky-Watcher tripods. The AZ4 looks OK, although it doesn't have slo mo controls I believe. To me, Meade mounts and tripods look quite different to the Synta ones.
     
  18. Ray of Light

    Ray of Light Well-Known Member

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    My Meade mount looks almost nothing like that picture, so I'm a little confused. I think Maks last post explained things as far as the Sunny/Synta situation is concerned. One thing, my mount is not a chocolate turkey or teapot or whatever, lol
     
  19. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    99e1bcdb-126c-4c05-8bfa-f443d085be54.jpg

    lol
     
  20. Mak the Night

    Mak the Night Well-Known Member

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    Had another lunar/Jupiter session of about 90 mins. Basically I wanted to see Schroter's Valley and Schickard. Conditions and transparency weren't as good as I'd liked, there seems to be a lot of moisture in the air. As a consequence 225x was the sharpest I could get.

    MONTES HARBINGER.jpg

    Montes Harbinger looked good though up to 281x.

    SCHICKARD.jpg

    Schickard was nicely near the terminator. I decided to get first light on the 60° 5.5mm Bresser 'Plerfle' for 163.63x. It didn't do badly considering the conditions and the 'under a tenner' Solomark Moon & Skygeek performed well with the Bresser. I bought the 5.5mm originally for the ST80 but with the Bazooka in mind if it didn't work well in the 80mm refractor.

    plerfles 5.5mm.jpg

    I turned to Jupiter and used the 5.5mm Plerfle wondering how it would fare on a notoriously difficult target, not expecting much. I had the Solomark M&SG threaded into it.

    GRS1.jpg

    I was a bit gobsmacked, the GRS jumped out at me! The image was virtually as good as the TSO 5mm. So, the 5.5mm Plerfle isn't the turkey I thought it might be (well, not in an f/6.9 scope). I also saw a bright meteor about 10° under M44.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2017

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